topic Message to Daniel_K in Sound Blaster

Message to Daniel_K

Dale-CL — Tue, 01 Apr 2008 20:49:43 GMT

We have read the strong feedback about Creative's forum post regarding driver development by Daniel_k and other outside parties. Creative's message posted on our behalf by our Company spokesperson tried to address our concern about the improper distribution of certain software which is the property of other companies. However, we did not make it as clear as we would have liked that we do support driver development by independent third parties. The huge task of developing driver updates to accommodate the many changes in the Vista operating system and the extensive testing required, including the lengthy Vista certification requirements for audio, makes it very difficult for Creative to develop updates for all past products. Outside developers have been very helpful to Creative and our customers by developing updates for many of our Sound Blaster products, and we do support and appreciate these efforts. This however does not extend to the unauthorized distribution of other companies' property. We hope to work out a mutually agreeable method for working with Daniel_k in supporting his efforts in driver development. Going forward, we are committed to doing a better job of working more closely with third parties to support their development for our products and our customers.

Message Edited by Dale-CL on 04-01-2008 03:49 PM

Re: Message to Daniel_K

TrooperTom — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:27:32 GMT

My god, you guys got some balls on you, either that or you'r all bordeline mad.

He offered a service you guys cant/wont, and in so madde a lot og YOUR customers happy about their product again.

Now you wanna whipe him out and keep him silent by threatning about legal actions.

This is a beyond retarded, shame on you, shame on you.

Re: Message to Daniel_K

driversnow — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 17:48:11 GMT

i agree this guy make vista useable for some many users as far as sound was concerned now stop all this rubbish

give this guy a job so we can enjoy our sound cards on vista 100%. cos its quite clear creative is useless when it comes to making useable drivers

Re: Message to Daniel_K

Eggchaser — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:12:37 GMT

He does something that Creative are either not capable of doing or refuse to do.

If you are not capable then I suggest you sack your software writers and employ ones that can.

If you will not then it obvious that you are FORCING people into buying new hardware that they do not actually need for the sake of making money and NOT to provide additional functionality because your older cards can provide this functionality with proper drivers(the ones Daniel_K wrote).

Incidentally you flagship products (X-FI) STILL do not run properly on Vista with YOUR drivers

YOUR staff even seem incapable of even uploading the correct driver set for a particular card

http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?board.id=Vista&thread.id=30052

Shame on you for doing this,actually I laugh at you for doing it because what you have done is lost yourselves customers.

Let me explain,without Daniels help a lot of the people on this forum would have binned your shoddy product and gone and bought a competitors product,in fact as I need a soundcard for a new build for my son's computer that is exactly what I am going to do.

One customer lost and counting.

Message Edited by Eggchaser on 03-28-2008 06:12 PM

Re: Message to Daniel_K

includao — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:44:33 GMT

Creative has done too much damage to his own consumers that genious developers like daniel_k must be praised has a hero even if he interfer with bussiness decisions or steals creative goods.

Creative IS stealing MY goods with bad marketing, services and drivers

Your products don't work properly. You are making fun at the customers, stealing us, spitting at our past will to buy creative products. I'm not buying creative products anymore, even if my life depends on it.

Thanks to daniel_k, MUITO OBRIGADO :)

Re: Message to Daniel_K

Knight_Rider — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 18:47:02 GMT

Like I said Creative is already selling it's HQ so I suggest you seek employment elsewhere.
http://www.tradingmarkets.com/.site/news/Stock%20News/1235910/

I buy the X-Fi Fatal1ty for it's DD/DTS capability. So where is it now? Am I suppose to take legal actions against you?
Dale-CL wrote:
Daniel_K:

We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative. Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We took action to remove your thread because, like you, Creative and its technology partners think it is only fair to be compensated for goods and services. The difference in this case is that we own the rights to the materials that you are distributing. By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods. When you solicit donations for providing packages like this, you are profiting from something that you do not own. If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make.

Although you say you have discontinued your practice of distributing unauthorized software packages for Creative sound cards we have seen evidence of them elsewhere along with donation requests from you. We also note in a recent post of yours on these forums, that you appear to be contemplating the release of further packages. To be clear, we are asking you to respect our legal rights in this matter and cease all further unauthorized distribution of our technology and IP. In addition we request that you observe our forum rules and respect our right to enforce those rules. If you are in any doubt as to what we would consider unacceptable then please request clarification through one of our forum moderators before posting.

Phil O'Shaughnessy
VP Corporate Communications
Creative Labs Inc.

Re: Message to Daniel_K

FreakShow — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:17:48 GMT

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA

You have got to be joking right? If your not prepared to make working drivers, then leave daniel alone as he clearly can do the job.

So, you going to make working drivers, or just complain at others doing it better?

Daniel, good work mate :D

Re: Message to Daniel_K

smitty1258 — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:31:16 GMT

Phil O'Shaughnessy,

You wouldnt know talent if it smacked you in the face. Daniel_K is what is keeping Creative users still with Creative. I had an X-Fi, and after waiting MONTHS for something Creative said WAS READY FOR VISTA and never getting it to work properly I sold that P.O.S.

Soon after sale Daniel_K came to the rescue and released some software that allowed the Creative card to work properly with Vista, and has since been the sole reason for me , and most likey thousands, if not hundreds of thousands people have kept there Creative sound card. I once again, ended up purchasing another Creative card (my mistake) thinking that Creative would see that Daniel_K was only helping Creative patch up something that you couldnt get correct. And when you did get it correct, long after Daniel_K got it working, you then want me to pay for it? Are you insane?

Here M. O'Shaughnessy, here is your new car, but before you can use it completly the way it was intended to be made, you first need to spend an extra $10 for keys to get full function.

I will make sure that the thousands of gamers that visit and play on our game servers everyday see my message and I can promise you they will think twice before they ever look at a creative product again.

Last but not least, stop being a noob!

Message Edited by smitty1258 on 03-28-2008 01:31 PM

Re: Message to Daniel_K

daniel_k — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:30:20 GMT

Dale-CL wrote:
Daniel_K:

We are aware that you have been assisting owners of our Creative sound cards for some time now, by providing unofficial driver packages for Vista that deliver more of the original functionality that was found in the equivalent XP packages for those sound cards. In principle we don't have a problem with you helping users in this way, so long as they understand that any driver packages you supply are not supported by Creative. Where we do have a problem is when technology and IP owned by Creative or other companies that Creative has licensed from, are made to run on other products for which they are not intended. We took action to remove your thread because, like you, Creative and its technology partners think it is only fair to be compensated for goods and services. The difference in this case is that we own the rights to the materials that you are distributing. By enabling our technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended, you are in effect, stealing our goods. When you solicit donations for providing packages like this, you are profiting from something that you do not own. If we choose to develop and provide host-based processing features with certain sound cards and not others, that is a business decision that only we have the right to make.

Although you say you have discontinued your practice of distributing unauthorized software packages for Creative sound cards we have seen evidence of them elsewhere along with donation requests from you. We also note in a recent post of yours on these forums, that you appear to be contemplating the release of further packages. To be clear, we are asking you to respect our legal rights in this matter and cease all further unauthorized distribution of our technology and IP. In addition we request that you observe our forum rules and respect our right to enforce those rules. If you are in any doubt as to what we would consider unacceptable then please request clarification through one of our forum moderators before posting.

Phil O'Shaughnessy
VP Corporate Communications
Creative Labs Inc.

I do know what is right, so I'll stop developing and distributing Creative softwares and drivers.

I'll leave a comment, though.

The funny thing is that you are faster "protecting" your technologies and intelectual properties than providing improved drivers and softwares for your customers.

You purposedly crippled and ruined the Audigy/Live! (Emu10kx) and the Audigy LS/SE/Value/Live!24-bit (P17) drivers for Windows Vista.

This just proves you don't really care about what your customers and what people think about you.

Re: Message to Daniel_K

daniel_k — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 20:45:53 GMT

Dale, please tell me, apart from the new packages that I will not release anymore, is there anything Creative want me to remove?

Re: Message to Daniel_K

Customer1 — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:04:31 GMT

Haha. LMAO!

If i were CREATIVE i would have hired that guy...but what do you?

Why is there a need for people like daniel_k in the first place?

Do us a favour and fix the products you are selling and i buy.

Support the people who support you.

daniel_k, the other customers and me.

Don't fight with us.

We're gone before you've choosen your weapons...

Re: Message to Daniel_K

Dale-CL — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:08:08 GMT

daniel_k wrote:

Dale, please tell me, apart from the new packages that I will not release anymore, is there anything Creative want me to remove?

You can remove any other threads on the forum linking to files containing Creative's IP, in case I missed any older ones.

Thanks,

Dale

Re: Message to Daniel_K

daniel_k — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:11:14 GMT

Dale-CL wrote:

daniel_k wrote:
Dale, please tell me, apart from the new packages that I will not release anymore, is there anything Creative want me to remove?

You can remove any other threads on the forum linking to files containing Creative's IP, in case I missed any older ones.

Thanks,

Dale

Wait a minute, are you asking me to remove everything I posted?

Also, removing the links are enough?

Re: Message to Daniel_K

daniel_k — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 21:14:34 GMT

daniel_k wrote:

Wait a minute, are you asking me to remove everything I posted?
Also, removing the links are enough?

Nevermind. I see you removed all threads.

Re: Message to Daniel_K

BobRamone — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:57:58 GMT

After witnessing this poor display from Creative management, I'm going to blacklist all Creative branded products from my ebay store and my brick and mortor. I won't be restocking any Creative products once I sell my existing inventory, and the inventory that I can still return to my distrubutor, I will do so on Monday.

I will suggest that others do the same, I don't feel confident that Creative will provide future support for their products.

Message Edited by BobRamone on 03-28-2008 07:57 PM

Re: Message to Daniel_K

DarkRadeon — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:32:33 GMT

All this are bull**bleep**!

CL has only to learn abut what is SUPPORT!

For me, this war is still started...

bye

Re: Message to Daniel_K

alexs3d2 — Fri, 28 Mar 2008 23:35:34 GMT

This is a very sad day:smileymad: Creative has just proved, that there IP is not at the level we have expected it would be. Had Crystalizer actually been a feature so great, coupled with the X-Fi processor, it would have never come to this fiasco.

But the sad part, is about the Vista drivers providing the same functionality as XP. Not providing them is indeed a business decision, but removing them is like declaring war on the users.

Re: Message to Daniel_K

JaJaJim — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:02:06 GMT

next battlefield: LINUX DRIVERS FOR X-FI !!! no-pre alpha bul.....

Re: Message to Daniel_K

JohnZS — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 00:02:14 GMT

Although I agree it is a sad day to see a driver modder get punished for helping people, I think it is unfair to "bash" Creative on this. For a few reasons.

1) The licence agreement which we all accept to says that we must not reverse engineer or tamper with the software as it is the property of Creative Labs.

2) I firmly believe that Daniel K has caught the flack because of the Dolby Digital feature As far as I am aware Auzentech paid a lot of money for an exclusive licence with Dolby to have their cards support this. Now, Creative would get into trouble if they allow a means for this to be "cracked" to run on non-Auzentech cards.

3) Accepting money (even in the form of donations) for someone elses copyrighted material is a big NO NO.

As for the whole driver XP vs Vista debate.

I am disappointed that the decoder functions which work in XP SHOULD work in Vista...there is no excuse and I am baffled why Creative have not added the support for the Decoding on Vista (and for the X-Fi Fatal1ty cards). Having said all of this though I do not want to cause too much of a flame on here as on the few occasions I have consulted Creative for help they have been more than helpful.

I work in the Industry and fully understand why Creative have responded this way. (as it is all there in the licence agreement) and would hope that Creative did approach Daniel and come to some sort of "we shall get the XP features onto Vista in x months, please do not release our modified IP as it may cause issues to end users and we cannot support those" before a public statement of this sort was made.

Thanks for the hard work Daniel the community here salutes you.

John

Re: Message to Daniel_K

alniks — Sat, 29 Mar 2008 01:06:53 GMT

First of all I want to thank Daniel_K for helping me to use Audigy 2 on my Vista x64. Without him I would probably switch to my onboard soundcard.

As for Creative, this is the worst attitude to the customers I've ever seen. I will certainly never buy any Creative product in my life and will advice against doing so any people I know. Bye Creative!

Message Edited by alniks on 03-28-2008 06:06 PM