*X-FI SOUNDFONT AND EFFECT BUGS* still remain unfixed

[bennetng]

Hey CL you are just ignoring customers. When will you fix the bugs mentioned in the posts below???

http://forums.creative.com/creativel...ge.id=681#M681
http://forums.creative.com/creativel...ge.id=540#M540

And the new Vienna 2.40.60 is just a joke. FX3 and FX4's effect send amount still remain untweakable, also the user interface such as toolbar position and window width cannot be saved. Please do something meaningful (such as supporting portamento) instead of supporting useless fancy functions such as 24-bit samples, THANKS.
Message Edited by bennetng on 04-03-200606:50 AM

[perihelion54]

I really doubt they will fix anything as they have been ignoring user complaints to the customer support center as well as here.
Kind of makes you want to smash your X-Fi to bits doesn't it?
It is extremely frustrating to have such a huge lack of customer support from CL now a days.
And as you stated, useless "fixes".

Has Creative been taken over by Micro$oft?
They sure are starting to act more and more like them!

And I was looking forward to downloading the new version of Vienna in the hopes they (CL) had finally fixed the crapload of problems with the X-FIs.
After reading your post I'm back to square 1
Message Edited by perihelion54 on 04-03-200604:00 PM

[WKjun]

Hi there, your are all right. Since the SoundFont bugs with the Audigy... no with the Live!... no, since the DOS driver problem with the AWE32 cards (you remember the lack of 100% GM / MPU401 compatibility) the troubles are growing. I get more and more the impression that Creative Labs is not interested in satisfying the needs of professional audio musicians, not even the needs of gamers. Far to expensive X-Fi cards, with no X-RAM (who needs it and what amount of it in a year or so???) upgrade capability and "refirbished" chipsets that tend to overheat without heatspreader due to production shortages.
I mean, what are they doing the whole time??? They create hypes how great game titles could(!) be in the future, if developers are using these interfaces called OpenAL and EAX19.000

Please fix theses audio quality bugs and don't be a monopolistic ignorant like Intel! See what is going wrong, see your errors, see the needs of customers and don't wonder why you are losing market share at this very moment.

Best regards

[bennetng]

Using X-Fi is just like using DOS in a fast P4/Athlon machine. A fast audio processor without adequate driver/software support is just crap. Let's compare CL driver with kX driver:

1. kX driver's developers will visit the user forums, answering questions and collecting bug reports.

2. kX driver let experienced users to design DSP plugins, without kX I will never know what is a "programmable" DSP chip.

3. kX driver supports GSIF2 and complete MIDI automation, CL drivers? XDDDD, not even the EMU cards.

4. X-Fi Audio Creation Mode Console is sluggish, for example when changing snapshots user need to wait a few seconds. kX never have this problem. Anyway the use of snapshots is a stupid idea when compared with a saved file like kX's preset file. kX's preset file can save near everything including ASIO settings, DSP routings, soundfont settings and so on.

5. Audio routing capabilities... X-Fi? Yes, it has. But kX's implementation is hundred times better.

To other CL cards users who are musicians: Please keep your Live/Audigy and use the kX driver, or buy another non CL/EMU audio interface. Never buy the X-Fi or you will regret.

[dwh]

As an old hand about such things, I'm not in the least surprised at these kinds of situations; i.e. a substantially new product comes out, the software has some issues, it seems like those issues are being totally ignored, even after much time as passed (months, many months).

CL is a company of above-average competence, believe it or not, and CL does care about its customers.

It's just not immune from the vagaries of software.

Frankly, it's easy enough to find out there are issues of this sort before buying; just ask in a place like this forum. If there are, and they're significant for you, don't buy the product yet; do something else. Still, when you buy it, establish that it does the kinds of things you really need it to do soon; if you find a sticking point, return the product rather than wait for a fix. You can always rebuy it if you subsequently determine a fix for the problem has actually become available. You can also communicate with CL in the context that you need a solution for x before you can consider buying the product, which is a bit more useful.

As far as the KX drivers go, they are based on CL's old APS drivers ported to the SBLive, and incrementally refined from there. The fact that CL looked the other way rather than sending out their lawyers is a strong indication to me that they do care about their customers. The KX drivers work even worse (not at all) on the X-Fi than CL's, after all.

-Dave
dwh@cfcl.com

[bennetng]

Maybe in your country you can return the product you don't like, but mine is not, in fact I am using both SBLive and X-Fi together. The merit of using X-Fi is just on the hardware side (such as better DAC/ADC, no resample in 44.1k), not software. And your claim that kX driver is based on old CL's APS driver is incorrect. kX drvier is first released in 2001, it is WDM-based. At that time there was no workable WDM-based APS solutions at all. From user interface to functionality kX driver is completely different from APS driver. I am using kX since 2003, the five points I mentioned above are true. kX doesn't support newer models very well because the developers cannot get enough information from Creative (they are commercial secrets), but for old models like old SBLive and Audigy it just worked fine.

CL drivers still have problems in OLD SBLive cards. Actually they have no intention to fix these bugs at all
http://www.geocities.co.jp/anothergs/driver.html

I am gradually moving into software samplers because the soundfont system is so buggy.
Message Edited by bennetng on 04-05-2006 07:03 PM

[dwh]

---

bennetng wrote:
Maybe in your country you can return the product you don't like, but mine is not,

---

I generally can, but although this is not just a matter of not liking, in that we're talking about deal breaker software problems, that just makes it more important to wait until a product has a reputation you can check out before you buy (as in being able to get clear answers when asking in this forum). I really don't think I've ever needed to return a product because I was surprised by a software bug which I wasn't able to live with, one that didn't have an already-available fix.

---

in fact I am using both SBLive and X-Fi together. The merit of using X-Fi is just on the hardware side (such as better DAC/ADC, no resample in 44.1k), not software.

---

Sounds like you've come up with a workaround you find sufficiently acceptable.

---

And your claim that kX driver is based on old CL's APS driver is incorrect. kX drvier is first released in 2001, it is WDM-based. At that time there was no workable WDM-based APS solutions at all. From user interface to functionality kX driver is completely different from APS driver.

---

You're right about that and I was wrong. My recollection had gotten hazy. kX was done because the APSLive drivers couldn't be used on Win2k due to the switch to WDM drivers by Microsoft. I don't know the genesis of xK, but I suspect there is a sense in which it was inspired by the APS drivers, and based on CL's old open source Linux drivers.

---

I am using kX since 2003, the five points I mentioned above are true

---

Point 1 is not sustainable when the user base is as large as it is for CL's drivers. It just means there aren't enough kX users to overwhelm its developers.

Point 2 is interesting because the kX

isn't what is normally referred to as a programmable DSP chip. It's a hardwired, register-programmed chip which contains a sample-locked mixer/effects programmable DSP subcomponent.

Point 3 is probably really a matter of CL not needing to take things that far because the kX drivers are available.

Point 4 may only be a matter of the newness of the X-Fi. A counterpoint is that presently the kX drivers certainly do not have this problem on the X-Fi (i.e. due to lack of support), and the SBLive/SBAudigy have no such thing as an Audio Creation Mode.

Point 5 is a matter that CL has to make drivers which attempt to minimize confusion for the typical consumer (even though that's a tall order) while kX can basically ignore that.

---

kX doesn't support newer models very well because the developers cannot get enough information from Creative (they are commercial secrets),

---

Why doesn't matter. What's important is that they don't.

---

but for old models like old SBLive and Audigy it just worked fine.

---

All the kudos about how they do work "great" on non-X-Fi cards don't change that they don't when it comes to the X-Fi. And, in the current context, the same techniques for knowing that before buying are available.

---

CL drivers still have problems in OLD SBLive cards. Actually they have no intention to fix these bugs at all
http://www.geocities.co.jp/anothergs/driver.html

---

I'm not impressed by that link. Do you have CL statement they acknowledge those as bugs and don't intend to fix them?

---

I am gradually moving into software samplers because the soundfont system is so buggy.

---

Software samplers aren't immune to this sort of thing, but you probably don't change them right at the same time you change hardware, and you may not see them in the same terms of getting new features.

-Dave
dwh@cfcl.com

[bennetng]

>>>Point 1 is not sustainable when the user base is as large as it is for CL's drivers. It just means there aren't enough kX users to overwhelm its developers.

kX is free. CL cards are not free. When we buy a CL card we also buy its driver and software. So even if kX sucks I cannot complain anything because I didn't pay for kX.

>>>Point 2 is interesting because the kX isn't what is normally referred to as a programmable DSP chip. It's a hardwired, register-programmed chip which contains a sample-locked mixer/effects programmable DSP subcomponent.

OK it is a concept, I don't mind if you think that my concept is incorrect but the fact is that kX driver let experienced users to design DSP plugins and I have downloaded some useful DSP plugins designed by other users and I am using them.

>>>Point 3 is probably really a matter of CL not needing to take things that far because the kX drivers are available.
>>>Point 5 is a matter that CL has to make drivers which attempt to minimize confusion for the typical consumer (even though that's a tall order) while kX can basically ignore that.

Why doesn't matter. What's important is that they don't. Some X-Fi effects (such as reverb) are better than old SBLive/Audigy + CL driver or kX driver. The sad thing is that I cannot use MIDI automation to control these higher-quality effects.

>>>I'm not impressed by that link. Do you have CL statement they acknowledge those as bugs and don't intend to fix them?

They ignored me so I cannot get any acknowledgement, just like they ignore my post in this forum. (You are not a CL representative, am I correct?) Posting in the forum is better than mailing to CL because other users can see my posts, even if CL staffs ignore me.

>>>Software samplers aren't immune to this sort of thing, but you probably don't change them right at the same time you change hardware, and you may not see them in the same terms of getting new features.
>>>.....that just makes it more important to wait until a product has a reputation you can check out before you buy....

Software samplers have trial versions, X-Fi has no trial versions. I was wrong because I should not buy anything without trying it first. So I post my experience here, let other users to know what problems I am facing. I am making some "reputation" now. Clever customers need stupid customers such as me to try new products and writing reviews for them to read so that they can decide to buy a product or not.

[bennetng]

New SoundFont bug found. Sample offset not working. X-Fi users can go to this homepage and try it youself.
http://www.sccmusic.250x.com/sfont/sfdiagnostic/index.htm

[milesmusic]

I own both X-fi Elite Pro and Audigy 2ZS. I use soundfonts. I use Cubase so I need ASIO drivers that work with low latency. I have a 2.4GHz Pentium 4 with an all Intel chipset and Windows XP SP2. No NForce hardware at all.
With the current drivers, even the beta, the X-fi is useless for soundfonts and ASIO at the same time.
You can play soundfonts. However, if you run out of polyphony it just stops working. Most samplers including the Audigy and Soundblaster chips intelligently cut off the oldest voice. Not the X-fi. Thus, the usable polyphony is actually better with the older cards.
I suspect that the soundfont engine was mostly hardware in previous cards, and now it depends on a very buggy software routine running in the X-fi engine.
You can use the ASIO drivers. With the X-fi you can set them as low as 1ms latency and they work.
However, if you try to use soundfonts at the same time the ASIO drivers will crash. Even with latency set to 100ms or more. This makes it pretty much useless for recording if you thought you were going to be able to use Soundfonts.
If you want to use Soundfonts in a recording app such as Cubase, DO NOT BUY AN X-FI CARD until creative fixes the drivers. Based on past history it takes 2 to 3 years from product release before a stable driver is released.
Either stick with the Audigy 2 series or buy another brand of soundcard and use a software soundfont player such as rgcaudio's free "sfz".
The Audigy 2ZS works fine when using both Soundfonts and ASIO drivers. On my 2.4GHz P4 I can set latency at 5ms.
Creative Labs would be well advised to hire better programmers for the driver development team. Seriously. Since you own EMU and EMU invented soundfonts, there is no excuse for this level of bugginess.