Sound Blaster

[Major_Mayhem]

I've sent this via snail mail as well and sent it to by email to the few email Addies I can find. I hope some one gets it.

Dear Creative Labs

 This is to inform you that I have become very disappointed in both your products and your customer service.
  

 I recently purchased a X-Fi platinum fatal1ty champion series PCI sound Card. I have been a loyal Creative Labs customer for nearly 2 decades. I have personally owned and used the sound blaster Pro, the sound blaster 16, the sound blaster awe32, the sound blaster awe64 gold (with a memory expansion), the sound blaster 512 PCI, the sound blaster Live!, the sound blaster live! platinum 5.1, and the sound blaster audigy 2 zs platinum. A lot of these sound cards I still own and possess. I’ve also owned a lot of other Creative labs products such as speaker systems, headsets, modems and video cards.
  

Since I already owned a Sound Blaster Audigy 2 zs platinum and my new mother board came fully equipped with a very nice fully functional onboard sound card, I decided to researched your new sound cards in November of 2007 to help me decide if I wanted to upgrade to the X-Fi platinum fatal1ty champion series . It had all the features I wanted EAX Dolby Digital DTS ext. Every review I read said that this card supported onboard hardware Dolby Digital/ DTS decoding as past sound blaster products like the Audigy 2 had done so before. Even your own website at the time stated that this sound card had Dolby Digital ex/DTS decoding.  The X-Fi platinum fatality champion series was advertised as “Works with Windows Vista”.

 The DD/DTS driver decode and Xram were the only reasons I upgraded from an Audigy 2 zs platinum. One would think that the DD/DTS driver decode was going to be functional on my sound card so I promptly purchased this product from Newegg.com. Even the box it came in listed it as “works with windows Vista” and had the Dolby Digital EX and DTS Logo’s on the box. I also purchased a digital I/O module from creative.
  
 Unfortunately there are 2 versions of the X-Fi platinum fatal1ty champion series sound card. A SB466 card that does support DD/DTS driver decode, and a SB46A that comes with a PowerDVD and no DD/DTS driver decoder. There is no way to tell the 2 cards apart other than by the serial numbers. At the time I never found anything that would lead to me realize that this card did not have DD/DTS driver decoder. 2 products same name, same description, and while they are physically the same the drivers are different. Creative Could have at least changed the name on the newer SB46A cards. Something like X-Fi neutered fatal1ty loser series would have fit perfectly.

 Some of the features I found lacking in windows XP pro where, no multi-speaker output in Digital or optical output threw the X-fi i/o drive bay or the digital I/O module. Content can only be played in 2 channels unless you have receiver capable of decoding DD/DTS AC3 threw the SPDIF pass thru and then only with DD/DTS content. I also discovered there is no DD/DTS driver decode with my card. To make matters worse ever since the end of the SB live! 5.1 series due to DRM in the drivers all creative sound cards disable digital out-put when listening to DVD audio disks. This includes optical, digital coax and even the digital if you have older speakers with built in decoders like the DDT-2500 and DTT-3500.

 I won’t get to far into the nasty messy nightmare that your product is in Windows Vista. I However must say when one buys a product like this and it is Clearly labeled as “Works in Windows Vista” one would be led to believe that all the features worked in Vista as well.

 All of this has led me to believe I have not only been misled by Creative Labs but I have been downright deceived.

What makes this entire mess even worse is your technical support. I had no way on your web site to contact anyone in tech support not E-mail Chat or Phone. Your web based support system made me jump thru hoops to nowhere. I had to google your NOT toll free tech support line to get a working number.

 I called your tech support line to find that I had to purchase my product in the last 60 days for help if I selected no I got a message referring me to web support heard what sounded like a line transfer then I got hung up on. When I got to a tech support rep, I told the rep my problems, after jumping threw some hoops like physically removing and reinstalling my sound card, I was flat out told my card does not support DD/DTS driver decode and comes with a PowerDVD download. Keep in mind this is not a full featured version of power DVD and has no DD/DTS settings for DVD playback. I ask the rep for a supervisor or someone in charge. Conveniently there is no one there in a management or supervisor position in the entire building. Even though I dialed a 405 area code number having worked as high level support at a major ISP, I start getting the suspicion that I’m talking to a outsourced tier one support center in India. The thick “can’t understand him” accent the rep had didn’t help ease my suspicions. Frustrated I asked him out right if I was talking to someone in the U.S. the Rep said he was in the U.S. Having no one higher I could talk to I requested a supervisor to contact me as soon as possible.

 After my wonderful tech support experience (not) I decided to look up my problem on the creative labs forum and elsewhere on the internet.  This is when I found Daniel K’s plight with Creative Labs, and the thanks he got for doing your job for them. Not only did this guy fix a few of Creative’s cards in vista he made them work better. Did creative pay him, offer him a job or at least say thanks? No! they threatened him and tried to silence him. Nice thing about the internet … anything that gets on it tends to stay on it. There is now no way for Dan to make his work disappear. Can you say “Bittorrent”!  Now not only did I find how to fix some of my problems like unlocking DD/DTS driver decode (without Dan K’s work). But I also found out my card can do Dolby Digital live using another venders X-fi drivers and Dan K’s Fixes. That other vender actually locked down and secured it’s X-fi drivers. Again nice thing about the internet ….. Say it with me …. “Bittorrent”! DDL is a feature that only seems to come with the titanium series X-fi’s every one else with a sound blaster will have to pay for it. Dolby is charging creative what 90 cents per license for DDL. Creative wants to charge us what 4 or 5 bucks for the download. I could understand this with a $20 or $30 sound card but my X-fi platinum fatal1ty  champion series card cost what $190 bucks right now give or take a few dollars. And oh god the poor audigy customers that have vista have to pay like $10 bucks just to get their card to work with games in vista with Creative Alchemy. 

 Now here is the really Sad part. Creative Labs is upset with Daniel Kawakami because he “enabled Creative Lab’s technology and IP to run on sound cards for which it was not originally offered or intended,”. Now I could understand this if it was applied to ASUS sound cards or Turtle beach sound cards but it doesn’t. Daniel’s Fixes only applies to can only be applied to (without Hacking) Creative’s own sound cards. What Creative is so upset about is X-fi features working on audigy sound cards, or the X-fi titanium PCIe features like DDL working on regular X-fi PCI sound Cards. Daniel also revealed to the world Creative labs ability to turn sound card features on and off from one driver revision to the next. This may explain Creatives reluctance to work with the open source and linux communities. The entire Daniel_K situation has led many people to believe creative is deliberately handicapping their own sounds cards to turn around and sell the fix back to the customer or force the customer to purchase a newer card. An Example of this is my own Sound Blaster X-fi platinum fatal1ty sound card. The original Card SB466 supported DD/DTS driver decode. Right around the time I purchased my card creative produced the New SB46A card that comes with Free version download of PowerDVD and no DD/DTS driver Decode.

 The SB46A card Can actually do DTS/DD driver decode. I’ve done it with my sound card in XP by swapping out some SYS and DAT files on my system. This has also been proven by other people.

 When you look at all this one can come to believe that there is very little hardware differences from generation of cards to the next. Look at the Sound Blaster Live! and compare it to the Sound Blaster Live! 5.1, Compare it to a Audigy. Compare and Audigy to an Audigy 2. Compare my Audigy 2 zs Platinum to my X-Fi platinum Fatal1ty Champion. Not a lot of major hardware changes from one generation to the next. Especially when you consider the older generation of cards like the Audigy 2 can handle X-FI features. This might explain that lot of the Vista problem Comes from Creative using windows 9x hardware Tech that may not be able to fixed with simple drivers alone due to the Major changes from 9x to Vista operating systems.

 Windows 2000 and XP at their core are almost the same operating system (NT 5) That’s why they share a lot of drivers, And all the 9x operating systems are nearly exactly the same as well at their core (windows 4) from 95 to 95c to 98 to 98se to ME. 2k and Xp can use some 9x drivers or drivers based on 9x versions. The biggest hiccup Creative has had with drivers was from 9x to 2k to Vista. Vista being the biggest challenge due to the fact that unlike xp being 2k in new cloths it’s a completely New Operating system from the ground up and handles programs and drivers differently. Now change from 32 to 64 bit. Good luck getting 9x drivers to run in windows vista 64.

 One could also believe creative holds out improvements intended for one card just to apply it to and sell a newer card that has very little improvements in the hardware itself. Then sell it to users of intended card if they don’t feel like upgrading, even to go as far as to break some of those features just to sell you by an “improved version” or force you to completely updrade to the next generation sound card. Think DD/DTS Driver Decode on a newer X-FI and then think about DDL – Pay for it or upgrade to a Titanium.

 PowerDVD adds a new problem with support. Cyberlink will not support Free and OEM version of PowerDVD. If it’s not a paid download from them or a retail copy they will refer you back to the provider, In this case Creative Labs. Call creative about problems with PowerDVD they will most likely refer you back to Cyberlink. 

 The Creative Labs Tech Support Supervisor called me back 4 days later (including the weakend). He told me the same thing “no DD/DTS driver Decode no Fix only PowerDVD!” I told Him how much creative was full of it. Told him I fixed my problem Told him how I fixed my problem then proceeded to vent on the poor guy for about a half an hour. Then I thank him for returning my phone call and hung up. He sound seemed like he was expecting more out of me.

 There are a lot of fixes for my Problem.

I can just do what I did and Swap out 2 SYS files and a few DAT files and get DD/DTS Driver Decode. But I shouldn’t have to.

I can use drivers and software Creative Labs doesn’t want me to have get my DD/DTS Driver Decode back with DDL and a few other nifty features not intended for my Sound Card. But I shouldn’t have to.

I can rely on my Full Version of PowerDVD8 Ultra, Other DVD software and Filters. But I shouldn’t have to.

I can turn on my SPDIF pass thru and use the digital optical on my 550watt (1000watts peak) 5.1 surround sound speaker system made by a competitor (ya! you all know which one I’m talking about.). Constantly switching between optical, and analog, depending on the application. But again I shouldn’t have to!

I can even go as far as to rip into and hack Creative’s drivers as well as their affiliates drivers using other resources and 3rd party products to see just how far the rabbit hole goes to get the most out of my sound card. BUT I SHOULDN’T HAVE TO!!!!

 This one product and Creative Labs behavior has led to believe that Creative Labs business practices are not only shady but absolutely dirty. It has led me to believe that Creative Labs actively misleads deceives and lies to its customers just to make a fast dishonest buck. It has led me to believe that creative labs is no longer the makers of the finest consumer PC Audio cards, but a Sinking mismanaged company in dire straits unable to compete and willing to do anything except the right thing to stay in business.
In today’s tough market (I feel the crunch everyone does) and with mid to high end motherboards coming equipped with some very good and competitive audio solutions and where the competitor’s products rival creative’s own products. Creative Labs needs to make sound cards twice as good as the other guys and using cleaner fairer business practices that will keep consumer faith and loyalty in their company. They should also stop wasting their resources trying to push bad products into a market already dominated by Apple like feral dog looking for scraps. Concentrate on what your good at … or was good at … Sound card and PC audio it should have always been first priority.

 I have never purchased another sound card for my own use or my families use other then Sound Blasters. All of the my systems at home (8 computers in my home alone) and my business either have sound blaster audio cards or onboard audio or no audio (server) mostly sound blasters. Most of the non server systems I sell and build either use onboard or sound blaster audio cards. EVERY high end gaming rig I build and sell has the latest and greatest Sound blaster Sound cards I get in them. When my customers ask me for a good sound card I sell them or recommend to them a Sound Blaster. But enough is enough! 

 I’ve had problems with almost every Creative product I have ever purchase except their sound cards until now. This is the last straw.

 I want Creative to Fix my sound card make DD/DTS driver Decode work and correct all the other bugs and get my sound card back to full functionality in Vista. They can even keep their silly PowerDVD download I neither want or need it.

Or

 I want Creative to RMA my SB46A X-Fi platinum fatal1ty champion PCI card for a SB466 X-Fi platinum fatal1ty champion PCI or a SB088 X-Fi Titanium fatal1ty champion PCIe card

Or

 I want Creative Labs to buy back my sound card at the price I paid for it minus any rebates.

And

 I want Creative to stop trying to bilking their customers out of every last penny by making them pay just to get their product to work when they already paid good money them, or to add an a feature “not originally offered or intended” when the product should have either already came with it or been included in an update and/or had the early comparable feature deliberately broken to make them pay more.

Or

 I swear I will never ever purchase another Creative product to the day that die. I will never ever recommend a Creative Product to anyone again. I will discourage every person I ever talk tech to from even looking at a Creative Labs product. I will never ever build and/or sell a gaming rig again with a Creative product in it again. And I will refuse to support a Creative product or system with a creative product If I have least inkling that the creative product is the cuase. Then I’ll explain why! I will also post my thoughts opinions and feelings about Creative Labs products on every blog message board review site fraternal site or forum I have an account on.

Thank You

Please note: I do not blame or hold responsible Newegg for any of my problems with Creative Labs. They have provided me with excellent products and services in the past and will continue to do so in the future whether or not they continue to sell Creative Labs products

Message Edited by Major_Mayhem on 08-03-2008 08:11 AM